Averbakh chess. Chess player Yuri Averbakh - biography, career, achievements. Who was your favorite boxer

The famous chess player, champion of the USSR in 1954, became the interlocutor of the "SE" correspondents.

There are legends about the form of an experienced grandmaster, and we are immediately convinced of the veracity of the stories. Averbakh's tread is brisk. And the memory is stronger than that of any young one - he recalls the smallest details from the 50s, without straining at all. After three hours of talking in the chess kitchen, we got tired, but the grandmaster - not at all.

Yury Lvovich temporarily abandoned the habit of going to the pool almost daily - he is getting used to the pacemaker. But he spends hours in the library. Like before.

Have you been to the library today?

Certainly. We have created a chess information center in the scientific and technical library. We develop the idea - chess without tournaments.

Why else is this?

For people to solve problems. We did sketches. Not everyone likes to play, right? In addition, we capture the elderly. Recently, at the Chess Olympiad in Dresden, the report of the Spaniards made a splash. Chess helps to avoid Alzheimer's disease. They act like medicine. A person goes into retirement, and his brain abruptly stops active work. Goes to a different state. And chess helps keep the mind clear.

Is it dangerous to stress at this age?

After seventy tournament struggle is harmful, I'm sure. At the last championship among pensioners, in the very first round, one of the participants, a candidate master Bondar, died. There are many such cases.

When was your last tournament?

Stopped playing actively five years ago. But I still give sessions. Recently I was invited to the Institute of Management Problems. There, the famous weightlifter Zhabotinsky is in charge of the sports department. He led this evening - however, he did not participate in the session.

Have you beaten everyone?

The session was small, seven boards. But I really beat everyone. including the rector.

So you're not at home?

What do you! I have an active life! The other day, for example, I wrote a story for the German magazine Woman and Dog.

???

It's called "About dogs and a little about women." I have always had dogs, and I kept a dream - to write a book about them. At the same time, he wrote about his wife and daughter.

Is your wife long gone?

She died five years ago. We lived 59 years.

Do you have grandchildren?

No, the daughter did not have children.

Daughter, it seems, was married to Grandmaster Taimanov?

Was. But they didn't work out.

Why?

I recently read Taimanov's words in a newspaper: "One must change wives once every ten years." But I didn't meddle in their business. They lived for ten years, then Mark left.

Did their divorce affect your relationship with Taimanov?

Influenced. We're not as close as we used to be. Once were friends.

Did you drink together?

And more than once. I met Taimanov and his first wife, Lyuba Brook, in 1945. Quite young. It was such a couple - Sherochka - Masherochka ... Mark only talked about Lyuba, he was not interested in others. Then suddenly it began to drift - after Brooke, one appeared, the second, followed by my daughter. Taimanov was a prominent man. From childhood he walked forward with a banner, starred in the film "Beethoven Concert". He was considered a very talented boy. Artistic nature, bohemian, a little lightweight.

Have you mastered the computer?

A little bit. It's a shame to waste time learning. I am still typing.

Mechanical?

Electrical. And the old one is standing in the corner. He took first place in the 56th at a tournament in Dresden and bought a typewriter right there with the prize money. Dragged across the border. Lord, how much is written on it ...

Are you writing books today?

I gave my memoirs to the publishing house, but they lie because of the crisis. I'm going to write a book "Is it necessary to study the history of chess?". It's my duty. There are no historical books on chess at all. People rely on the work of 1913.

You have many books. Which one was the hardest to write?

Three-volume "Chess endings". In the early 1950s, I, Keres, and Bondarevsky were at the same table. Word for word - and the three of us decided to write an endgame textbook. But soon Keres became a contender for the world championship. Bondarevsky began to train Geller, then Smyslov and Spassky. He also had no time for textbooks. I was left alone.

So what?

At first he attracted assistants, and twenty years later they decided to republish the three-volume book. And I finished two more volumes. Pakhl, like a black. At the same time he edited the magazine "Chess in the USSR", was the chairman of the Chess Federation of the Soviet Union.

Busy position.

Prior to that, under eight chairmen, he was a deputy. I didn’t want to become the main one at all, but in the 72nd no one wanted to be substituted.

Why?

The match between Spassky and Fischer was coming up. And then one day they called from the Sports Committee: "We propose to head the federation. We do not advise you to refuse." It sounded like a threat.

How long have you presided over?

Five years. And when Karpov had a match against Korchnoi, cosmonaut Sevastyanov replaced me. I again became the first deputy. He also entered the FIDE leadership.

You said - "plowed like a Negro." And in more detail?

He came home from work and sat down at the typewriter. Sat until late at night. It ended for me with glaucoma. One eye is still missing. Analyzed four thousand positions! The second time around, I wouldn't do anything like that.

Did you work with Campomanes in FIDE?

I met him in Indonesia when I was still an active chess player. I participated in the tournament there, then I had to move to the Philippines, but there is no visa. They say: "Don't worry, Campomanes will come and organize everything." He came on the last day. We went to the embassy. Oh, horror - it turned out that they ran into Independence Day. Nothing works, the ambassador gave up on fishing. Nobody knows where. The plane is in two hours - and there are three of us, confused grandmasters. We panic.

Campomanes too?

He sent us to the airfield, he rushed off to look for the ambassador. Boarding was over when Campomanes returned with our passports. The ambassador wrote visas into them with a pen. The stamps were already slapped in the Philippines.

Did you know English well?

So good that he translated Samaranch several times - he was the Spanish ambassador to the USSR. Of the Soviet grandmasters, Keres and Kotov spoke a foreign language besides me. And at one time I went to courses, because for knowing the language there was an increase in salary of 10 percent.

By the way, I was the first of the grandmasters to pave the way to the East - I traveled from India to New Zealand. He published a book "On different continents". Even the publishing house "Geographic Literature" offered me to write more about my travels.

Have you written?

Yes. But the book was put on hold. Some head of the press committee was indignant: "What, you don't have enough geographers - what are grandmasters writing about?"

So it didn't come out?

She left after I complained to the Central Committee. They called me to the publishing house: "We do this: what you see, you describe. No reasoning. You are not a geographer." And I got a lot of impressions - what is the island of Curacao worth, where we played the Candidates Tournament. A drop of land in the Caribbean. There are two monuments to the one-legged governor of the island - one in Curacao, the other in New York ...

Why haven't you come close to being a world champion?

I'm not a champion. I am an explorer, but not a fighter or "assassin" at the chessboard. I was interested in analyzing. For some reason, I played volleyball more aggressively.

Was there a chess player who could never be beaten?

Therefore, I left the profession of a chess player - a new generation came: Spassky, Tal ... I could not even win a game against either one or the other. I understand it's time to leave. In Oslo there is a wonderful monument called the "Tree of Life". People crawl up, pushing each other. This is what chess is.

You edited the magazine "Chess in the USSR". Was it not there that Fischer's games were reprinted, refusing to pay royalties to the champion?

Fischer never complained about our magazine. I gave him all the numbers. I was friends with his patron, Colonel Edmondson. A military diplomat who was director of the American Chess Federation.

What's the history with Fischer's fees?

Ilyumzhinov paid him 100 thousand dollars. Brought money to Fischer in a shopping bag, which was wrapped in a newspaper.

Is it true that Fischer read Chess in the USSR from cover to cover?

He said that for this he learned Russian! We met when Bobby was 15 years old. We played a game in an interzonal tournament. Both were in time trouble, and suddenly Fischer offered a draw. It was absolutely not in his nature. Many years later he was reminded of that game. Fischer smiled: "I was afraid to lose to the grandmaster. And the grandmaster was afraid to lose to the boy..."

Fischer was very strange. Enemies seemed to be all around him - for example, he sincerely believed that the Bolsheviks were dreaming of poisoning him. He was a terrible anti-Semite, although his mother is Jewish. But he also hated his own America. After the September 11 tragedy, he spoke on Philippine radio, welcoming the terrorist attack. He said: so, they say, the Americans deserve it, they have long deserved it. The fact that Bobby is not quite adequate, I realized a long time ago. Also in Curacao.

What's wrong?

In the midst of the tournament, a break was announced - chess players were invited to the island of Saint-Martin. Each was placed in a separate bungalow. Once I looked at Bobby, and at that moment he found a centipede on the floor. You should have seen how Fischer stomped on her with a scream and a face contorted with rage! Another time we ran into each other in Argentina on the first floor of a hotel. He stepped out of the elevator and saw that a reception was being held in the lobby. The tables are set, the waiters scurry about with trays. People are drinking and eating. I don’t know what frightened Fisher, but such horror flashed in his eyes, as if a crowd of cannibals were in front of him. Bobby shot back into the elevator, locked himself in his room. And changed the hotel in the morning.

Did he have friends in the chess world?

I do not think. Lilienthal maintained good relations with him. In Budapest he often visited Fischer at home. But it was all like a one-way traffic. People were drawn to Bobby - he was by nature a loner.

Did he even use it?

Alcohol was not tolerated. I drank juice and milk.

What trait of Fischer most annoyed you?

Capriciousness, a feeling of permissiveness. Bobby thought he could do anything. I learned that Grandmaster Reshevsky, a religious man, observes Shabbat and is allowed to play in the Candidates Tournament on Saturdays after sunset. The rest sat down at the board strictly according to the schedule. Then Fisher joined some sect, it seems, the Seventh-day Adventists, and also demanded relief. But if Reshevsky did not leave his room on Shabbat, then Fischer on Saturdays, as if nothing had happened, walked around the hall, playing dominoes with our guys.

Domino?!

Yes. Either Vasyukov or Korchnoi taught him how to play, and Fischer fell in love with this business very much.

You didn't go to war, did you?

In the 39th he almost fell under the "Voroshilov call". I entered the Bauman Institute - but they didn’t take it from there, they trained workers for the military industry.

And in the 41st?

Then they decided to show that supposedly Moscow lives a normal life. We held a tournament for young masters. Because of him, I was late for the train in which my institute was evacuated. Where to go? Except in the militia.

- A volunteer?

Yes. October, already cold. Snow is full. We were lined up, an elderly officer was walking in front of the formation - and his eyes stumbled upon my canvas shoes. "Surname?" - "Averbakh" - "Get out of action. Do you want to fight in such shoes? Quickly go to the store, look for winter boots." Saved my life.

How?

I'm 190 meters tall, and my shoe size is 45. I went to a bunch of shops - nowhere like this. And the next day, panic began in the city - a message was sent that the situation at the front had worsened. Muscovites blew out of the city, and I followed.

On foot?

I threw two loaves of bread into my bag, sugar, a gas mask, a little money - I got on the tram number two. I drove all the way to the edge of Moscow. To the highway of Enthusiasts. And moved along the highway.

Where?

Somewhere to the east. Anecdotal history. I saw a truck on the side of the road - it had a broken axle. He helped the driver find a depot where they exchanged one of my loaves for a new axle. With this truck we went further.

Have you gone far?

to Murom. There I look at the market - familiar faces ... It turned out that the echelon with my institute at the station. Lucky case that did not get to the front.

Do you think they would die?

Sure. With my height, they would have taken me into the infantry, and then they would have laid me down. There are statistics: in my generation, three out of a hundred returned from the front. The rest perished. Fate saved me.

How many happy times have you had in your life?

In the spring of 1941, I was nominated for a Stalin scholarship. Then the war, I forgot about scholarships. And already in the evacuation in Izhevsk they gave me money for six months - three thousand! And all - treshkami! There was nowhere to spend them, except for bread. But still, it seemed like happiness.

There was a case in the 55th - Minister of Defense Zhukov announced fees for officers who did not serve. I almost made it to the ship. Those same days, Spassky was supposed to go with coach Tolush to the world championship among youths. And Tolush climbed over some fence at night and broke his leg. I stayed at home, and instead of a ship they sent me to Belgium. Everything would be great, but on approaching Paris, our twin-engine airplane had a jammed landing gear. The pilots lifted the plane and abruptly threw it down, knocking out the landing gear. It worked out.

You investigated Alekhine's death. Rumored to have been poisoned in Estoril, Portugal.

Investigated. But there is no evidence of poisoning. Everything is at the level of fables. Yes, our bodies at that time were engaged in the elimination of people who actively opposed the Soviet regime. However, such a figure as Alekhine was hardly of interest to them. I don't think anyone poisoned him. There are a lot of inconsistencies though.

I.e?

Alekhine was not buried for three weeks after his death, everyone solved problems. The death is really very strange - in the posthumous photograph, he is sitting in an armchair in a coat. What's this? Did you dress him up or was it cold in the room?

And the priest, they say, refused to bury him - because there were signs of beatings on his face.

Nothing like this. Fairy tales.

Who did you talk to in Estoril?

With everyone who was more or less connected with Alekhine. Too bad the little hotel where he died was already demolished. Where did the talk about poisoning come from?

Why?

The waiter who served him on the last day confessed before his death that he poisoned Alekhine.

They said that Alekhine died on the beach.

There is a beach in Estoril, but the death did not happen there. It was March - what should Alekhine do on the beach?

Spassky was also engaged in a similar investigation. He has his own version.

Spassky knows the same thing that I know. Allegedly, the waiter confessed to something. Yes, a lot of people have done this. Some pianist, who later emigrated to America, appeared in our magazine with his guesses ...

Alekhine was buried not in Portugal?

Ten years later he was reburied in Paris. Botvinnik went to the funeral from the Soviet Union. The monument says: "To the genius of Russia and France."

Years later, in England, I was the referee at the Kasparov-Short match. He has appeared on the BBC several times. Once he asked if they had anything from Alekhine. They promised to look - and brought a recording of his interview of the 38th year. Alekhine had just won a match against Euwe. This record is still with me.

Chess is rich in myths...

I even wanted to write a book called Chess Mythology. Some spread legends themselves - like Tal, for example. Loved to lie.

About what?

Yes, here is the case. In 1955, they began to criticize me for avoiding social work. After that, he was appointed chairman of the qualification commission. The first person I made a master was young Tal. Soon in Riga, I, the champion of the USSR, met with Tal. I overstayed time in a draw position. So Misha said: "I was not awarded the title of master until I beat the chairman of the qualification commission ..."

Maybe that's how it was?

I can show you a photo from that match. Near us are signs: "Grandmaster Averbakh - Master Tal."

Many legends are connected with Lasker.

And the most interesting story is that Lasker fled the USSR in 1937. A familiar chess player came to see him that evening, so Lasker did not tell him a word about his plans.

Was Lasker a citizen of the USSR?

No, Germany. When Hitler came to power, Lasker left the country. First he found himself in England, then he was going to Palestine. He came to Moscow and was given shelter here. They gave me an apartment in the center, got a job at the Steklov Mathematical Institute...

Ostap Bender said that Lasker smoked his rivals.

In 1935, when Lasker arrived, jokes about him were circulating throughout the Soviet Union. And such - about smelly cigars. Mythology. Specially smoked only Ragozin.

Whom?

Botvinnik. But tobacco did not interfere with that, he was exclusively autosuggestive. If he said to himself: "This should not bother me," - everything is on the side. Botvinnik and I played 25 practice games at his dacha.

Where was the cottage?

On Nikolina Gora. Mikhail Moiseevich played with the radio turned on - he believed that after such a noise in the hall he would not be bothered. And my head was swollen from the "Country Hour". Botvinnik and I argued a lot.

About radio?

No. Botvinnik has been trying to create a chess computer since the 1950s. The current one uses speed, calculates a million options per second. Botvinnik had an idea - to immediately "cut" this tree of calculations.

Were you against?

He said: "Mikhail Moiseevich, we are old people. Let young people deal with cars." Botvinnik fought against this wall for thirty years, but could not do anything.

Was Botvinnik's dacha nice?

She has her own story. Nikolina Gora was in the water protection zone and was controlled by the NKVD. Botvinnik turned to the chairman of the Committee for Physical Education, General Apollonov, to petition Beria for the allocation of a plot. The cream of society lived on Nikolina Gora - the Nobel laureate Kapitsa, the famous actor Kachalov, the poet Mikhalkov ... Soon Apollonov called Botvinnik and said that Beria had refused. Mikhail Moiseevich was not taken aback. "Can I use the turntable?" - asked. And he called Politburo member Malenkov: "Hello, this is world champion Botvinnik. I have a little question for you." "I'll be waiting in half an hour at the Old Square," he heard in response and hurried to meet Malenkov. A week later, the Committee for Physical Education received a telephone message: “To the Minister of the Forestry Industry - to allocate so many cubic meters of timber; to the Minister of Railways - to deliver the timber to Nikolina Gora; to the Main Architectural Department - to prepare a project for the dacha. All expenses - at the expense of M.M. Botvinnik and the signature - I. V. Stalin". That's how Mikhail Moiseevich bypassed Lavrenty Pavlovich.

Were you friends with Petrosyan?

Tigran is a very talented chess player, but not too ambitious. When he lost the title, I think he breathed a sigh of relief.

Why?

The title, the need to win regularly - all this put pressure on him. I remember the episode. I was Petrosyan's coach when, already in the status of ex-world champion, he played with Korchnoi. With the score 2:1 in favor of the opponent, Tigran got an excellent position. Moreover, he had forty minutes left, and Victor had ten. Petrosyan thought. And at that moment Korchnoi made a subtle psychological move - he offered a draw.

Petrosyan agreed?

He fidgeted at first. When he turned around, Geller even showed him his fist: they say, don't take it into your head! But Petrosyan pondered for half an hour and, when the time was equal, gave the go-ahead for a draw. I was beside myself: "Tigran, what have you done?! After all, such a chance!" And he suddenly sighed: "It's good for you - there are only four years until retirement. And I'm twelve years old." But poor Petrosyan did not live to see his retirement. Died at 55 from pancreatic cancer. This illness, by the way, ruined both Botvinnik and Estrin, the world champion in correspondence.

Did Petrosyan understand that he was hopelessly ill?

Yes. There was hope for an operation, but the doctor cut it open and sewed it up. It no longer made sense to operate - metastases began ... You know, recruiting soldiers for the legion, Caesar preferred those who, in a moment of danger, do not turn pale, but blush. I noticed that Petrosyan turned very pale during important games. This means that the blood drains, the vessels narrow. Perhaps this led to the disease that took him away.

Have you seen the tears of great grandmasters?

As a boy, Fischer cried. In 1971, his match with Petrosyan was held in Argentina. At a reception with the president of the country, someone asked Bobby: "Is it true that you cried after defeats?" To which Fischer sharply replied: "But the Russians always take a time out in such situations." Then during the match they were allowed to take a break three times. I also remember Spassky's tears in Riga. He was twenty years old. Lost to Tal and rolled back to fifth place in the tournament. Sobbed out loud. But another incident happened to me at a tournament in a pioneer camp.

Which?

I blundered the rook, and the opponent, instead of taking it right away, began to mock and insult. Well, I punched him in the face. I have been boxing for a year. Subsequently, it helped me more than once.

For example?

Once, with grandmasters Levenfish and Bondarevsky, we were returning by train from a tournament. A tipsy sailor rode next to us in a reserved seat. Noisy, bullying Levenfish. I had to intervene. After that, the guy wrapped the belt around his fist and moved in our direction. But Bondarevsky and I tied him up and sent him out. Then the most interesting began.

What?

The passengers were indignant that the hooligans had mutilated the unfortunate sailor. At the nearest station, a policeman appeared in the carriage. The sailor handed him the statement. We did not remain in debt - we also wrote a paper, where we set out our version of events. And they signed: grandmasters Levenfish, Bondarevsky, international master Averbakh. When it turned out that there were chess players in front of him, the policeman was shocked. He took both applications and left the car without saying a word.

We read that Petrosyan once clashed with Korchnoi. Truth?

Clutched - loudly said. I'm telling. The match Petrosyan - Korchnoi was held on the stage of the Odessa theater. And Tigran, as chess players say, was a "cyclist". That is, sitting on a chair, sometimes shook his leg. This got on Korchnoi's nerves. And he barked, "Stop shaking!" Their relationship had deteriorated by that time, and Tigran gritted: "Contact me through the judge." But he sat quietly. The match went badly for him. In one of the following games, Petrosian forgot himself and shook his knee again. Then Korchnoi, without getting up from his chair, hit him on the leg with his boot.

There are legends about Korchnoi's character. They say that in preparation for the match with Karpov, he hung a portrait of his opponent over the bed and spat at him. Could this be?

Why not? When Bronstein was facing a match with Botvinnik, he turned to Levenfish for advice: how should I prepare better? He replied: "Hang a portrait of Botvinnik over the bed and get used to the fact that for two months you will see this mug."

Botvinnik dropped in an interview: "Karpov managed to accumulate around him the entire chess elite of the country, but he himself is sterile, like a sterilized female." Is it really true?

It seems to me that Botvinnik was simply for Kasparov, and that's why he spoke out so sharply. But here is another moment. In those years, sports in the country were managed by the propaganda department of the Central Committee. Tyazhelnikov, who headed this department, was, like Karpov, from the Chelyabinsk region, therefore he always supported his countryman. Many people didn't like it. In the Sports Committee, I constantly heard from the bosses: "Just don't offend our Tolik." Before the match with Karpov, Korchnoi called me and asked me to move the beginning of the games for an hour. Karpov is an owl, gets up late. Wished to play at 17.00. Korchnoi suggested starting at 16.00. I told the deputy chairman of the Sports Committee, who oversaw chess: "If this is a problem, let them play at 16.30." But they didn't want to hear about concessions to Korchnoi. As a result, my relationship with Korchnoi completely deteriorated.

Because of such nonsense?

Viktor thought that I went over to Karpov's side. He even sent me a postcard. I didn’t call you a bastard, but there were enough insults. I keep it as a memory. And after he stayed in the West, the Sports Committee said: "We are preparing a statement from the grandmasters about Korchnoi. Sign it." If not for that postcard, maybe I would not have signed anything ...

Has anyone refused?

Four. Botvinnik stated that he never signed anything. Of course, he was cunning - in the 37th everyone signed, and Mikhail Moiseevich was no exception. Bronstein didn't answer the phone. It cost him dearly - the bosses understood everything, and for many years they made it impossible to travel abroad. Did not sign Gulko, who immediately fell into disgrace, and Spassky. But they didn’t even approach Boris - they knew that he wouldn’t sign.

Because of chess, grandmaster Aronin thundered into a madhouse. How did it happen?

Aronin is a tragic figure in our chess. In 1951, in the last round of the championship, he had an adjourned game with Smyslov in an absolutely winning position. But Aronin managed to fall into a trap - and it turned out to be a draw. For him it was a blow. Moreover, a draw did not allow Aronin to reach the interzonal tournament. Head problems started. It seemed to Aronin that he was mortally ill - now with cancer, now with a heart attack. At the same time, he showed everyone the recording of the ill-fated game with Smyslov and lamented that he could not beat him. Because of the endless pills, Aronin's metabolism was disturbed. Terribly stout, at the end of his life weighed more than 150 kg. In the chess club, they kept a special chair for him - the usual one could not withstand such a weight.

By the way, about Smyslov. Did he sing professionally?

Oh yeah. If not for chess, Smyslov would have made an excellent opera singer. He loved to perform romances, arias from operas. In Holland he even recorded a record, which he gave me.

Keep - next to Korchnoi's postcard?

Alas, someone whistled. In the 50s, concerts were regularly held in the team. Smyslov sang, Taimanov accompanied. And then Kotov came out and played the Moonlight Sonata. Also an interesting story.

Tell me.

Kotov was friends with the pianist Flier. Somehow they decided to have fun and arrange an all-around - preference, table tennis, chess, something else. Suddenly Kotov blurted out: "Let's turn on the instrument." Although I never approached the piano. Flier said: "If you perform the Moonlight Sonata, consider yourself a winner." Two months later, Kotov came to Flier's home and played Beethoven. Since that day, the grandmaster has got a signature number. But apart from the "Moonlight Sonata", he could not play anything.

Which chess player was the master of joking?

Flora had a great sense of humor. Tolush struck with wit. Somehow he beat Botvinnik with the words: "And to you, comrade Botvinnik!" Another time, checkmate was announced to Tolush himself. But he just grinned: "I ask you to do it."

So what?

Mom was gone!

Have you ever played chess under a degree?

There was a split. It was the championship of the USSR. On the day of the match, I decided to have lunch at the Central House of Arts. Met familiar actors. "Who are you playing with today?" - they ask. "With Flor". - "Don't worry, there will be a draw. Let's have a drink." Persuaded. Flor, oddly enough, did not notice my condition. I don't remember how I played. At some point I came to my senses and saw that I had a hopeless situation.

How long have you had a chess collection?

I can't call myself a collector - I'm more interested in the history of chess. But there are rare examples. I have twenty sets in total. Everything is handmade. The hobby began with the fact that in 1961 I won a tournament in Vienna, where Tyrolean chess was the first prize. There is a Viking-shaped chess set made from fishbone. Later I brought the original kit from Bali. Each figure is a different local god.

What amazing things have you seen in other people's collections?

There are two sets of Faberge chess. I wrote about one in the Russian Art magazine. Chess from semi-precious Ural stones, silver board. Once belonged to General Kuropatkin, who commanded our troops in Manchuria. Now these chess pieces are in a private collection in America, but they are for sale. The price is 12 million dollars.

An amazing collector lives in Mexico - there are two thousand sets of chess in his house. I am friends with the President of the International Society of Chess Collectors and Historians, Dr. Thomson. He has a thousand sets. One of them is unique - it used to belong to Grand Duke Mikhail Romanov, brother of Nicholas II.

Are there collectors among grandmasters?

Karpov. He even opened a workshop where chess is assembled from mammoth bone to order. I know that Karpov presented such chess to the Prince of Monaco for his wedding.

Chess for 12 million you did not pull. But they bought Mao Zedong's chess.

For only two thousand dollars! I immediately donated the chess to the museum of our federation. There they are now stored.

Maybe send Korchnoi's postcard there too?

Until I give up.

Many are amazed at your form. And you - whose?

Lilienthal - 98, but holding up well. He always took care of his health. Just a hero. He himself says that his main achievement is success with Russian women. Of Lilienthal's wives, only the first was Dutch.

How many were there?

There are four official ones.

And all are beauties?

Karen Agamirov: Our guest is international grandmaster, international arbiter, president of the USSR Chess Federation in 1972-77, Yuri Averbakh.

He is asked questions by journalists Eduardo Guedes, Moscow correspondent for the Portuguese newspaper De Notisias, and Yuli Semyonov, radio station Mayak.

At the beginning, according to tradition, a brief biography of the guest of our program. Yuri Lvovich Averbakh is an era in chess. International grandmaster already in 1952, and it was really a very serious title then, in the 50s he stubbornly strove to conquer the chess Olympus. It didn't work out. And not only him. They said about Akiba Rubinstein: "He was not a world champion, he was just a great chess player." Yuri Averbakh was not, he is, and is in great shape. Yuri Lvovich is 85 years old. Originally from Kaluga. I became interested in chess at the age of seven. And even though he did not become a world champion, his sporting achievements are impressive. Almost 50 years ago, in 1938, young Averbakh won the USSR championship among schoolchildren under 16 years old. Having matured, he won the championships of Moscow three times - in 1949, 1950 and 1962. 16 times - think about it! - participated in the finals of the championships of the USSR. In 1954 he became the sole winner, and in 1956 he shared the first or third places with Boris Spassky and Mark Taimanov. Grandmaster Yuri Averbakh won the European Championship twice as part of the national team of the Soviet Union. Winner or prize-winner of more than a dozen major international tournaments. Over time, Yuri Lvovich switched to organizational and coaching work, and here he also showed himself in all his splendor. In 1972-77 he was the President of the Chess Federation of the USSR. From 1974 to 1982 - in the governing bodies of the International Chess Federation FIDE. Vasily Smyslov, Mikhail Tal, Tigran Petrosyan conquered the chess Everest to a large extent thanks to the help of Yuri Averbakh. And during the reign of Mikhail Botvinnik, he was his sparring partner. International grandmaster Yuri Averbakh since 1969 is also an international arbiter, chief referee of a number of world championship matches and world chess Olympiads. For almost 30 years, Yuri Lvovich edited the famous Chess in the USSR. Author of many major books on chess. And his five-volume edition "Chess Finishing" is still in great demand to this day. In 1992, Averbakh published the book In Search of Truth.

Did you find her, Yuri Lvovich?

Yuri Averbakh

Yuri Averbakh: In what sense did you find it? The fact is that when I turned 75, the English publishing house Everyman simply offered to publish a collection of my games. And then I sat, worked and published. That's all.

Yuly Semenov: As a chess lover, I have a lot of questions for you. But I will try to ask those that will be of interest to a wide audience. And my first question is this: was it worth devoting your life to chess? Still, this is some kind of special sphere artificially created by the human intellect, its own aesthetics, its own internal laws, after all, something invented.

Yuri Averbakh: I can explain. The fact is that I, in general, was not going to become a chess professional. And I graduated from school, like all other people, then I graduated from the Bauman Institute, became an engineer and worked in a “box” for five years. By the way, the last director of the "box" in which I worked was Mstislav Vsevolodovich Keldysh. I had an interesting job, I was preparing my Ph.D. thesis, but at the same time I had pretty good results in chess. But it seemed to me that I was sitting on two chairs - and in chess it seems to work, and in science something works. And at some point I realized that it was very difficult to combine both. Work interfered with chess, chess interfered with work. I needed to make a choice. And although I lost a lot in my salary, it so happened that they offered me, then they introduced a scholarship for athletes. And I, despite the fact that my wife was categorically against it, and my parents, in general, were against it, especially my father, because he was an engineer, and he believed that I should do serious business, nevertheless I decided. On one condition. The fact is that the head of the enterprise where I worked, the “box”, or rather, the head of the department, we talked with him on this topic, and he said: “Try it. If something serious doesn’t work out, then I’ll take you back.”

Yuly Semenov: But now, life is lived, how do you answer this question?

Yuri Averbakh: Now I do not regret my decision. I do not regret it, because as a child I was very fond of geography, and chess gave me the opportunity to see half the world. Later, thanks to chess, I met very interesting people. And if you remember all this, then I do not regret that I gave my life to chess.

Eduardo Guedes: Yuri Lvovich, my question is not exactly a chess one, but it is very connected with sports. You are like a person who devoted his whole life to sports. What did this recent decision mean for you that the Winter Olympic Games will be held in Russia?

Yuri Averbakh: I will say that I was by no means so far from physical sports. When I was still schoolchildren and a student, I swam and played volleyball in sports competitions, except for chess, and played hockey. In short, I was such an ordinary young man who was fond of sports since childhood. So I only welcome this event. And I believe that this event will allow, firstly, to make a big step forward in our sport, if only it will be well used for the development of the younger generation. And then, I must say that economically this should contribute to a very large development of the south of Russia, and communications there, and roads, and all this. So I welcome this event.

Karen Agamirov: Did chess give you a lot in terms of everyday life - to become wiser, calmer, more enduring, more self-possessed?

Yuri Averbakh: Well, about being wiser - you can’t say it, it still depends, apparently, not on what you do, but on your features. But, you see, chess teaches even a simple thing, if you like, the ability to communicate with people. Because sport, in general, is a cruel thing, when there is a competition for a place in the sun. In general, I think when they say that chess reflects life, then chess reflects very well the struggle of generations for a place under the sun. What does it mean? The fact is that, since the life of a chess player can last 25 years or 50 years, grandfathers and grandchildren meet at the board. And if we look at the table of tournaments, it is very clearly visible how the aging generation is gradually losing ground, and the younger generation is gradually climbing up. In addition, we have competitions where, as they say, generations go wall to wall. This is the seventh championship of the USSR, where Botvinnik became champions for the first time and pushed the older generation aside. The same was in 1951, where, although the first place was taken by Keres, the second and third places were taken by the young Petrosyan and Geller. Taimanov, by the way, also achieved success there. Here is the most characteristic.

Karen Agamirov: You said “contact”, but I didn’t see much contact, on the contrary, a generational conflict.

Yuri Averbakh: This is a conflict, right, but at the same time, I would say, here, if you like, even the moral qualities of chess players are tested. You know, sometimes it can be unhealthy.

Karen Agamirov: Can you get embittered, yes, senior comrade?

Yuri Averbakh: Yes, absolutely right. And that's where jealousy comes in. That is, playing chess at the highest level is a very cruel sport, in which there are many good things, but there are also negative qualities.

Karen Agamirov: They say that to become a champion, you must have a killer instinct, like Kasparov. Can a really just good person become a champion without having this instinct?

Yuri Averbakh: You know, I don't quite agree with you here. The fact is that my experience says that chess players can be divided into six groups. Here is the first group - these are, indeed, "murderers". Here he is, as it were, figurative in a game of chess, he fights not for life, but for death, each game goes on at this level. Indeed, Fischer, Korchnoi... I would not say that Kasparov was completely a "murderer", but he has this factor. And, by the way, Anatoly Evgenievich Karpov also has it. Now the second group is the “fighters”. If we compare it with boxing, then the “wrestler” wants to win, but he does not have to knock out the opponent, it is important for him to win. The third group is "athletes" for whom chess is a regular sport. Well, for example, Capablanca was like that, Keres was like that. That is, there are normal people: the struggle is over - he is a normal person. The fourth group is "players". A classic example is Anatoly Evgenievich. He plays all the games, you want - chess, you want - a throw-in fool.

Karen Agamirov: And Tal, probably, too.

Yuri Averbakh: Not really. Here Geller is included in this group, and Tal ... There are two more groups. These four groups - "killers", "wrestlers", "athletes" and "players" - all world champions are included in these groups. In addition, there are two more groups. These are "artists" for whom it is important how to win. And now Tal is in this group, that is, he is not completely, he is a “fighter” at the same time, but still he is trying to do something. There were also more classic ones, such Simakin was, for example, for him it played a huge role - how to win.

Karen Agamirov: The artistic side, of course.

Yuri Averbakh: And one more group - it is called "researcher", and by the way, I belong to this group too.

Yuly Semenov: Now here's a chess-political question. The greatest event of the past century was the collapse of the Soviet Union. So for Russians this is a tragedy, for opponents, opponents of Russia, on the contrary, this is a positive event - the collapse of the empire. This had huge implications for chess, and everyone knows it. On the one hand, Russia has lost a lot of chess players, but, excuse me for such an expression, it has impregnated the whole world: playing for America ...

Yuri Averbakh: Yes, the whole team is from the Soviet Union!

Yuly Semenov: Yes, almost the entire team is from the Soviet Union. For Israel, too, almost the entire team, for France, for Turkey recently, and so on.

Yuri Averbakh: For Ireland.

Yuly Semenov: For Ireland, yes. That's all I said, do you think this is a positive moment for chess or a negative one - what happened?

Yuri Averbakh: You understand, this is a difficult question. The fact is that for the world this is a positive moment. I'll just give an example. When I was the chief referee of the Olympics in 1994, I just looked: representatives of the Soviet Union played in 30 teams. But from the point of view of our chess, of course, we have lost a lot, and this needs to be restored.

Yuly Semenov: Tell me, does Russia have a chance to rise again? Because we have witnessed several failures at the team championships - in Europe, in the Tournament of Nations.

Yuri Averbakh: You see, it's a matter of organization, I think. Organizations and responsibilities. Because, as far as I know, firstly, the coach injured his leg and commanded from the room. At such a moment, many players arrived, as they say, from the ship to the ball. It is necessary to prepare, and it was the main advantage of our organization that we took these events seriously. And of course, we had a very long bench. These three points, it seems to me, played a negative role.

Eduardo Guedes: You said that when you became a professional chess player, you had a serious loss in terms of salary. But still, during the Soviet Union, there was probably some kind of certainty that there would still be a salary. How does a professional chess player live now? Can a young chess player become a professional?

Yuri Averbakh: I think the prizes are pretty high right now. No wonder they say that Fischer raised prizes, and Spassky even called him the chairman of our trade union. After Fischer, the prizes went up a lot more. And when Spassky, say, lost to Fischer, he received more money than all our champions before for winning the world championship. Now there are a lot of tournaments in the world. If a person is a high-class chess player, he is invited, then he can earn very decent money. Of course, he will not receive as much as tennis players, football players or hockey players, but, in any case, as they say, he can provide a decent living wage for himself.

Karen Agamirov: Yuri Lvovich, but Alekhin said that chess is life. One learns from the mistakes that can be made in games in exactly the same way as in life, Alekhine said. Does chess reflect life in terms of breaking through, reaching a high level, that we will let this one go, but we will not let this one go, we will let this one go, but we will not let this one go? Here Khalifman recently gave an interview, and says: “I was simply not invited when I became the world champion. FIDE simply ignores everything, they don't invite me to tournaments. They don't care about me, they don't need me." Maybe that's the relationship? Are there any favorites here, too?

Yuri Averbakh: In our time, the Sports Committee also had favorites, so many great chess players very often looked for patrons, so to speak, in the highest echelons of power. For example, Petrosyan had representatives of Armenia, Kasparov had Aliyev, Anatoly Evgenievich had Tyazhelnikov…

Karen Agamirov: ... the first secretary of the Komsomol Central Committee then.

Yuri Averbakh: Yes. Then he was the head of the ideological department of the Central Committee. Botvinnik had a minister of power plants Zhemerin. So, you see, even then there was such a situation that someone supported someone. I’ll tell you, you say that Khalifman complained that he was not invited, the fact is that Khalifman was never among the top ten chess players in the world, but still, as a rule, those who are among the top ten are invited. Yes, he won a strong tournament, but still, this system, which Ilyumzhinov came up with, did not give a real champion. And I think that Khalifman was unlucky in this sense.

Karen Agamirov: And the current system, which Ilyumzhinov also came up with, is it better?

Yuri Averbakh: You know, it seems to me that FIDE has a number of significant shortcomings that arose after Campomanes became president. What's the matter? The fact is that in Euwe's time - this is the beginning of the 70s - Euwe set the task of greatly expanding FIDE. He traveled around about 100 countries, most of them at his own expense, and indeed, FIDE included a huge number of countries that had nothing to do with the world championship. But, nevertheless, each country is one vote. Let's say the Soviet Union, which had millions of chess players, had one vote, and the Virgin Islands (there were the British Virgin Islands and the American ones) - two votes in total, and the number of chess players in total there was hardly more than a few thousand. And this led, especially during Campomanes, that these countries began to play a very big role. This is also the problem of the United Nations Organization, but there is a Security Council, while in chess, in FIDE there is no Security Council. And this shortcoming continues to exist. That is, the issues of world championship are decided by countries that themselves have nothing to do with the struggle for world championship. This means that they should be included, as they say, in the team of those countries that want to fight for the world championship.

Yuly Semenov: Yuri Lvovich, I respect you very much, but I dare to disagree with you. It seems to me that recently FIDE has taken such a competent direction. You probably won't dispute that the Candidates matches in Elista were won by the really strongest. And then, to be honest, FIDE, Ilyumzhinov and his team, leading managers, still cook the mess, and they just vote. It is not the Virgin Islands that offer the world championship system.

Yuri Averbakh: This is not entirely true. The fact is that in order for all the necessary countries to vote, you understand, it is not so simple. I'll explain the system to you then. The fact is that many countries that cannot come because of the weakness of their leadership, they can vote - a proxy, and the country can take one proxy. That is, you see, when I was in FIDE, I saw all this, when countries voted like this. And here is Campomanes, the first to master this proxy system. I will give a simple example. Under Euwe and Olafson, the number of these proxies was 10-12, no more. As soon as Campomanes began to lead FIDE, the number of proxies became 40. And at the same time, for all 12 years that Campomanes was in the leadership, he never lost a single vote. That's all, in principle, continues to remain. And it seems to me that this is the main shortcoming of FIDE.

Yuly Semenov: Now, do you think that the strongest have been selected for the World Championship match-tournament in Mexico City? We especially know the position of Topalov, and the rest?

Yuri Averbakh: I just want to say that the system should be unified, and it should not work for one cycle, but it should work all the time. Ilyumzhinov made the right first step: we have one absolute champion. But in the system itself there are very significant defects. Here I will give you a simple thing. The world championship is played, it is played in three different types of chess. The first is classical chess. If classical chess gives nothing, an advantage, then they switch to rapid chess. Rapid chess has different rules. And finally, blitz. There are third rules in blitz. This generally contradicts the laws of sports: the rules must be the same. This is a very significant point. Secondly, it seems to me that FIDE is absolutely wrong in aiming at the transition to Olympic sports, to the Olympic Games. They are already choking on various sports, and there they can’t decide what to include and what not to include. And chess - they can only have team rapid chess at best. It's still not the same chess. And finally, the last, but very important question: they must develop a unified system for the development of chess, this must work for years, and then FIDE will raise its authority.

Karen Agamirov: And I remember the old system with nostalgia, the system was good.

Yuri Averbakh: It was a system, and that, I think, is very important. Let's say a young chess player who is trying to climb this ladder, of course, must know clearly what he has to do in order to become a champion.

Karen Agamirov: And, mind you, you said that Khalifman had no rating, but a completely young chess player could enter the Candidates matches from the zonal tournament and become world champion, he had the opportunity to do so regardless of the rating.

Karen Agamirov: Interzonal… Even from the zonal. Not from grandmaster, but still he could go through the cycle with full grounds.

Yuri Averbakh: I repeat once again that a young chess player must clearly know what he must achieve in order to reach these very…

Karen Agamirov: Even the same Kramnik, recently interviewed, he said: “I don’t even understand who I will have to play with if I lose the championship ...”

Yuri Averbakh: So this is the defect.

Eduardo Guedes: Yuri Lvovich, most of your career you lived in a country where an athlete, probably, could not think that he would get rich. But still, a high-ranking athlete could travel, he had contacts. Was it tempting for you to leave the Soviet Union?

Yuri Averbakh: I can say that when I played in Australia, I was the first Soviet chess player who came to Australia, I'm here, frankly, very lucky that I speak English. And when the opportunity to ride appeared, of course, it was easier for me than for many athletes. And so, when I was in Australia, when there was a final banquet, there was a representative of our embassy, ​​one person suddenly got up and said: “I suggest Averbakh stay in Australia. Let him help us develop chess in Australia.” And he also said: "Everyone knows me as a millionaire, so there will be no material problems." I thought about it and said, "Thank you, but I'm a millionaire myself." In general, I think that I did not have such a direct desire. I weighed, I have a family here, I have a daughter, I have all my relatives here. Now you can choose. Then this could lead to very far-reaching consequences, and the example of the same Korchnoi says a lot.

Karen Agamirov: You are an excellent referee. Which of the world championship matches that you officiated was the most memorable for you?

Yuri Averbakh: You know, all matches are very interesting. I judged one match between Kasparov and Short when they first left FIDE. It was a very interesting match, because Short, in general, is a very curious chess player, and then Harry played very relaxed. I think that this was almost the pinnacle of his chess capabilities, he played very relaxed, allowing Short to show his best abilities. Although in practice, when you fight with someone for a high rank, the task is just the opposite: to prevent the enemy from demonstrating his best qualities, that is, to select such positions, create such positions where your talent will manifest itself better than the talent of a partner. This was perhaps the most interesting match. But I was also the referee of that famous Kasparov-Karpov match, which lasted five months and ended, as you know, in nothing. This is just a historical event, which was more like not chess, but a tug-of-war between the political leadership of our country and the Council of Ministers, who was stronger, the party or the Council of Ministers.

Karen Agamirov: Was there any pressure on you during that match?

Yuri Averbakh: Judges, no.

Karen Agamirov: Grigorich was the chief judge, right?

Yuri Averbakh: Yes, and Mikenas and I were deputies. The fact is that, you understand, Grigorić unexpectedly took part in the negotiations. After all, everything was going “under the table”, and I thought that the judges had no right to get into such stories at all. The judge - here comes the competition, and he should be at the top, and what happens "under the table" is not his diocese.

Yuly Semenov: Karen, it seems to me that we have not yet touched on a very important topic that will be of interest to a wide range of people.

Karen Agamirov: This is Kasparov's participation in politics, I will definitely ask about this later.

Yuly Semenov: A topic that may be of interest to a wide range of listeners is chess and computers. When the computer age began, it had already dealt several blows to chess. Firstly, before excellent analyzes, commands - all this was an intrigue, but now this is not the case, since a computer can analyze a position to the bottom. There was a problem of computer hints, especially recently. What do you think of all this?

Yuri Averbakh: Well, let's start with the fact that I was a referee of the FIDE World Championship in 2001, and at the first stage, in the very first round, it turned out that Anand beat a very average French chess player, and Morozevich barely made a draw with the Leningrad candidate master. And then, on reflection, we introduced a metal detector, and before the game, each participant was looked through with this thing. And it turned out that these opponents of Anand and Morozevich went swimming in the second round, that is, a completely different level of play.

Karen Agamirov: Did you carry handheld computers with you?

Yuri Averbakh: No, I think they just got the information from somewhere. So it became a threat. The second problem is, of course, that the fight against a computer should be taken as seriously as the fight against a person. The fact is that after all, the program is made by a person, and artificial intelligence has not yet been created. After all, what is the program based on? That she just manages to slip through millions of options in seconds and chooses the best one. Psychological preparation plays a very important role here. So I watched the last match of Kramnik - he was clearly not ready to fight the program on an equal footing. And that determined his failure.

Karen Agamirov: There was a long queen move.

Yuri Averbakh: Quite right. But the important thing is that you need to be able to fight in this situation. But, on the other hand, the computer now provides incredible possibilities for analysis. We can now take the games that were played 100 years ago and analyze them, squeeze everything you can out of it. And now many people are doing this and discovering completely new things. But what is negative is that the analysis of chess players has fallen sharply. Previously, delayed games were forced to work, but now they are not forced to do so. In addition, because there are three controls, and the end of the game - the endgame - is usually played with a very tight control. And what happened at the tournament that I judged? I don’t even want to give a name, but in the “queen against rook” position - this is a training position - 50 moves were not enough for a chess player who was among the top ten chess players in the world to win, the game ended in a draw. It's incredible! This suddenly highlighted his shortcoming.

Yuly Semenov: But will computers still kill chess or not?

Yuri Averbakh: Chess is already 15 thousand years old, at least, and they have already suffered so much on their way from religion, and Islam fought chess, and the Christian religion fought chess, and in Russia the game of chess was banned altogether. It was very quickly equated with gambling, only then sorted out. Cards nearly killed chess. That's when cheap cards appeared, then chess was mainly a game of the upper strata of society, and it turned out that it was faster, easier to play for money. Then there was a reform of chess, chess took on a modern look. Maybe some reforms will be required, but my point of view is that chess will still remain.

Eduardo Guedes: During the 20th century, it seems that people's thinking has changed a bit due to technology, computers, the media, and so on. To what extent can this influence the tactics, the strategy of chess development? Is there an evolution in the ways of thinking?

Yuri Averbakh: You know, I generally think that chess has evolved along with human thought over 15 centuries. Here is a very important point. Even, moreover, because chess originated as a game of kings, in chess they learned the art of war. It was a specific military game in which the Chaturanga stood on the board - this is a four-part Indian army. And later this game has already developed people simply. Therefore, it is no coincidence that if we name the names of people who played chess, we will see both poets and scientists there, not to mention kings. Let's even take Russia, in Russia the first chess player that is mentioned was Ivan the Terrible, he died at the chessboard. Alexei Mikhailovich played chess. Peter the Great specially arranged chess games at the assemblies. Ekaterina played chess, and for her it was an opportunity to communicate, she even played quadruple chess, that is, when there are four people. I'm not talking about the fact that, quite unexpectedly, we discovered that Nicholas II was a big fan of chess. We have a visit to the museum of a lithograph from 1890, which was published in England when he was still the heir, and it is called like this: “A family meeting in the castle ...” This happened in Denmark, where the Prince of Wales met, who later became King George the Fifth, the king of Greece, a relative also turned out to be, Tsarina, the mother of Nicholas II and the wife of Alexander III, and Nicholas II himself, sitting at the chessboard, that's what's interesting. And there was the Queen of Denmark, who united them all, they were all relatives. Moreover, Nikolai was the main sponsor, as they say now, of two major international tournaments - in 1909 in memory of Chigorin, and in 1914, which is called the Grandmaster. I gave a small list, you can name much more.

Karen Agamirov: Lenin also loved chess. But after Lenin, in my opinion, none of the Soviet leaders were fond of chess.

Yuri Averbakh: No, I was told that even Brezhnev played chess.

Karen Agamirov: Putin does not play chess.

Yuri Averbakh: I can't say, I don't know.

Karen Agamirov: No, it doesn't, that's what I'm talking about. Is that bad?

Yuri Averbakh: You see, it is not necessary for a person to play chess. The main thing is that he works well with his head.

Karen Agamirov: This is a politician, right?

Yuri Averbakh: Yes, politician. Kasparov, a chess player, went into politics, a great chess player, probably, unequivocally, a brilliant, great chess player. Was it even worth it for him to do this? Or, they say, he was still pleased with his game for many, many years ...

Yuri Averbakh: You know, I will express my point of view here. The fact is that Kasparov has one shortcoming, which, by the way, Botvinnik also had - this is called champion thinking. The champion mindset is that he believes he can be world champion in everything. I will give you an example of Botvinnik. In 1954, Botvinnik, being world champion, sent a note to the Central Committee entitled "Is a world revolution possible without a Third World War?". This note came to Pospelov. It's all documented now, it's all in the archives, and Pospelov's wonderful answer is there. Pospelov writes that in his notes Botvinnik expresses the typical point of view of the bourgeois Laborites, he should be invited to the propaganda department of the Central Committee and his mistakes explained to him; and if he insists on them, he cannot be a member of the party. Well, Botvinnik figured it out and wrote a penitential letter there and said: "Thank you for pointing out my mistakes." But this is not the first case, much later, during the perestroika period, he also wrote such a note to Abalkin of approximately the same plan - "How can we equip Russia." And Abalkin also wrote a negative conclusion to this. It seems to me that Harry is repeating Botvinnik's mistake.

Yuly Semenov: Remember, Kasparov had his first entry into politics at the beginning of perestroika, when he and Travkin created a democratic party and so on. And then I, as a political observer, invited him to the Mayak studio. We talked with him there for 40 minutes, and for myself I concluded that what you are talking about is overestimated self-esteem - it inspires him in chess and lets him down in politics.

Karen Agamirov: Unlike Botvinnik, I don't think he will repent.

Yuri Averbakh: I can tell you one more detail. The fact is that when Botvinnik quarreled with Kasparov, I tried to reconcile them, agreed with Botvinnik that Kasparov would come to him, and Kasparov agreed to come. And I was present at their two-hour conversation. It was a conversation between two deaf people, each listening only to himself. And I realized that it is impossible to reconcile them. And in politics, such a line will not lead to anything good.

Eduardo Guedes: How do you assess the possibilities of young people in the field of sports now, mainly in the field of chess? Are there better conditions in modern Russia than they were when your generation began to study?

Yuri Averbakh: You see, in our time there was a system that was created somewhere in the 60s. The fact is that then (I will return a little to the 60s), after the war, we won all the titles of world champion in a row: personal world champions, team champions, European championship, student championship. But, starting with Spassky and ending with Karpov, during this period we could not win one title in any way - this is the title of world champion among youths. And I talked about this with school teachers, and they explained to me in a popular way that the generations in our country, born before the war, during the war and after the war, unfortunately, turned out to be weak due to a lack of vitamins, due to a nervous situation. In short, there were enough problems, and this plays a very large role. And then all of a sudden, after the appearance of Karpov, another generation already started up again, which was in better conditions, and then everything fell into place.

Yuly Semenov: I have a question related to that of my Portuguese colleague. Right now, the Chinese phenomenon, you know, the Chinese youth from the village literally come to chess, both young men and especially girls. Did they revive our system? Or do they have their own secrets?

Yuri Averbakh: No, I think they just have a good organization. We also had it, in the 60s we developed the system very well. We have the first stage - it was the "Belaya Ladya" competition, where any school could take part. This competition consisted of several stages, and the final was usually held where the best gathered, and about a million schoolchildren participated in these competitions. And it was already easy to choose from these schoolchildren, because there was still a system - these were competitions of Pioneer Palaces, in which grandmasters, masters who came from these Pioneer Palaces participated. It was another stage. In short, we had a coherent system for bringing a person into big-time sports, and this is exactly what our federation has to develop now.

Yuly Semenov: But the Chinese somehow cherish these young talents in a special way.

Yuri Averbakh: No, I don't think there is anything new there. The first thing is important there - to find them, and the second - to teach them correctly. And that's it.

Karen Agamirov: Our time is coming to an end, and one cannot but ask, are you still in favor of the fact that chess was taught at school as a compulsory subject?

Yuri Averbakh: Yes, I think that chess is very good at helping to develop a person. They have a number of very useful qualities, and this, of course, should be used in pedagogy. By the way, we had a lot of schools, and I came across these schools, where they introduced this subject - chess, and they were quite successful. And now, in my opinion, the federation is just working in this direction. And by the way, I also help somehow develop this direction. The idea is not to educate, as they say, grandmasters, but the idea is to use the pedagogical possibilities of chess.

Karen Agamirov: And a couple of short questions and short answers, in a nutshell, literally. How do you like the general situation in the country? You have lived your life, you are a very wise person, you have achieved a lot, and you can look more from these positions. What do you think of today's Russia in general?

Yuri Averbakh: I am an optimist, so I look to the future with optimism, although, as the saying goes, we are all business travelers in this world. And, unfortunately, I'm leaving, as they say, from the fair, nevertheless, I look to the future with optimism.

Karen Agamirov: How do you like Putin?

Yuri Averbakh: Positively.

Yuly Semenov: You are a chess journalist. What do you think about chess journalism in Russia?

Yuri Averbakh: You see, I don't like it when journalists are very personal sometimes, and sometimes unprofessional. It seems to me that after all, any journalism should have its own professionals.

Karen Agamirov: Is journalism free in Russia today?

Yuri Averbakh: No comment.

Karen Agamirov: The program participants express their opinion about the conversation with Yuri Lvovich Averbakh, international grandmaster, international arbiter. Eduardo Guedes, please.

Eduardo Guedes: I have the impression that Yuri Lvovich answers very calmly and deeply, like a person who is used to analyzing the situation that is in front of him. And so it was interesting to listen to his opinions in different areas. It feels like we are talking to a smart person.

Karen Agamirov: Yuly Semenov ...

Yuly Semenov: I was most impressed, firstly, by the fact that I see a living Yuri Averbakh next to me and have the opportunity to talk with him. For me, as a chess lover, this is really an event. Well, if we talk about the greatest impression, then I was most impressed by the integrity of the personality of our interlocutor. This is an ascetic, this is a person for whom life is a single whole. I will not be mistaken, probably, if I say that you are a happy person.

Yuri Averbakh: Maybe.

Karen Agamirov: I became interested in chess somewhere at the age of ten, and then for me Yuri Averbakh, your games, your books ... Did I think that after 37 years I would actually sit and talk with the living Yuri Averbakh. I'll end the same way I started the show, with your biography. Yuri Lvovich Averbakh is an era in chess.

In Baguio and Buenos Aires

After Korchnoi remained in the West, and even dared to make political statements, according to the understanding of Soviet ideologists, he turned into a sworn enemy of our country, who had to be crushed at all costs. However, neither Petrosyan, nor Polugaevsky, nor Spassky was able to solve this problem, which was not so much a sporting as a political one.

Now all the hopes of the authorities were only on Karpov. Therefore, the world championship match between Karpov and Korchnoi, which took place in 1978 in Baguio, went beyond the framework of chess and turned into a political battle.

On the one hand, the faithful son of the Russian people, the “golden boy” of Soviet chess (as Karpov was called in the West), played in it, on the other hand, a defector, a person of dubious nationality, a renegade. According to the plan of the authorities, this match was to become a kind of battle between George the Victorious and the dragon, in which the dragon must be defeated. The preparation of Karpov for this battle became for the Sports Committee a paramount matter of national importance and increased responsibility. Of course, the leadership of the Sports Committee reported on the progress of the preparation to the very top.

A huge delegation left Moscow for the Philippines. It included trainers, bodyguards, journalists, translators, a massage therapist, a doctor, a psychologist, and even a cook. Baturinsky headed all this brethren. As Karpov later wrote: "The match in Baguio is the most quarrelsome, most scandalous competition of all in which I have ever taken part." It is worth adding that in the centuries-old history of chess there has never been such a scandalous competition. No wonder Edmondson, who published a book about this match, so bluntly called it "Scandals in Baguio." What happened there was beyond my comprehension, it did not fit in with the noble image of the old royal game.

The behavior of the parties was far from gentlemanly, it resembled a kitchen quarrel in a communal apartment. Korchnoi, for example, put on mirrored glasses and, according to Karpov, made sure that the light reflected from them fell into the opponent's eyes. In response, Karpov, according to Korchnoi, began to spin in his chair, making sounds that prevented the enemy from thinking. And zealous journalists painted these little things as if they were masterpieces of chess thought. And such rubbish filled the pages of newspapers, both Western and ours. For example, such a reputable newspaper as Izvestia published a message from Baguio, which stated that as soon as Karpov was about to go to bed, an airplane specially began to circle over Baguio, the noise of which prevented him from falling asleep ...

Later, in his book Anti-Chess, Korchnoi laid all the blame for the scandals on the Karpov team led by Baturinsky, while Karpov’s team in the book My Sister Kaissa and Baturinsky on Pages of Chess Life placed all the blame for the scandals on Korchnoi’s team. Now we can say that both sides played "anti-chess". And the reputable English newspaper The Times was right when, summing up the results of the duel in Baguio, it summed up: "The prestige of chess was dealt a serious blow to the prestige of chess by the match in Baguio."

Not only to the prestige of chess, but also to the prestige of our country. During the match, Korchnoi received the following telegram:

“All my heart is with you. Jean-Paul Sartre, Samuel Beckett, Eugene Ionesco, Fernando Arrabal.

This meant that the best representatives of the European intellectual elite were rooting for him. Yes, and in our country there were many people who wanted Korchnoi to win. Here is what the famous director Stanislav Govorukhin said:

“When Korchnoi began to be persecuted, my sympathies with Volodya (Vladimir Vysotsky was a friend of Govorukhin. - Yu. L.) were definitely on his side. And not only ours - a huge number of people, especially among the intelligentsia, rooted for Korchnoi. It just so happened with us: we see that someone is being humiliated, someone is being put pressure on by the official authorities - and the vast majority is right behind him (remember, for example, the case with Yeltsin).

We are compassionate. So it has always been - and so it always will be. I remember when the score became 5:5 in Baguio, we were simply in a feverish state. But it all ended quickly ... "

I'm not going to tell all the vicissitudes of this fight, which lasted more than three months. After the 27th game, the score of the match was 5:2 in favor of the world champion. But then his game went downhill and he lost three games in a row! The score was equal, and it seems that Korchnoi has already triumphed. However, in the 32nd game he got a difficult position. Although the meeting was postponed, his second, grandmaster R. Keane, announced the resignation of the game.

As Baturinsky wrote: “Joyful for the champion and for all Soviet people in Baguio was the day of receiving a warm congratulatory telegram from L. I. Brezhnev, which noted that Anatoly Karpov showed great skill, unbending will and courage - in a word, our Soviet character.

Upon his return, Brezhnev personally presented the champion with the Order of the Red Banner of Labor. Karpov thanked and said that he tried to justify the trust, but in response he heard:

Yes, I tried, we were here with the score 5: 5 clutching at the heart!

Ten years later, Mikhail Tal, who was also a member of the

Karpova, speaking on television in Moscow, remembered Baguio and said among other things:

We could not imagine the consequences if not a Soviet, but an anti-Soviet chess player becomes the champion! It is possible that in this case chess will be declared a pseudoscience!

Shortly after the end of the match in Baguio, the center of chess life moved to Buenos Aires. The World Chess Olympiad began there. The USSR team did not play in the strongest composition: citing fatigue after the fight for the chess crown, Karpov did not take part in the competition.

However, even without him, the team looked very impressive: B. Spassky, T. Petrosyan, J1. Polugaevsky, B. Gulko, O. Romanishin and R. Vaganyan. With an average coefficient, our team outperformed the second-placed Hungarians by 50 points. When there were 6 rounds left to finish, the team was in the lead, ahead of the West Germans by one and a half points, and the Hungarians even by two. However, then came an unexpected breakdown. After losing to the FRG team and making draws with the Swedes and Israelis, the USSR national team sharply slowed down. The friendly and close-knit team of Hungary can be safely called the heroes of the finish line. Two rounds before the end, the Hungarians took the lead and have not lost it to anyone. As a result, the USSR national team lagged behind them by a point. Since 1952, this was the first time that we lost the palm at the Olympics.

Korchnoi also distinguished himself at this Olympics. Playing on the first board for the Swiss team, he took first place in the individual competition. The FIDE Congress took place at the end of the Olympiad. He was re-elected. Having drunk enough in Baguio, Euwe decided not to run for a third term. As he himself explained to me, he hated to deal with non-chess issues.

There were three candidates for the presidency: the Puerto Rican Narcisso Rabel-Mendez, already familiar to us, the Icelander Fridrik Olafsson and the Yugoslav Svetozar Gligoric. Naturally, we supported Gligoric as a representative of a socialist country, but already in the first round of voting, when no candidate received more than half of the votes, he dropped out as an outsider. In the second round, the votes of the socialist countries passed to Olafsson. This decided everything, and he became president. And I was elected a member of the Executive Committee, chairman of the qualification commission and co-chairman (together with Campomanes) of the commission for assistance to developing countries.

A lawyer by education, a strong grandmaster, and a participant in the 1959 Candidates Tournament, Olafsson knew the problems of the chess world well. Therefore, his first proposal was the introduction of rules for the organization of high-class international tournaments. These rules clearly regulated the rights and mutual obligations of participants and organizers, as well as the conditions for holding such tournaments. Olafsson also sought to bring legal clarity to the regulations of world championship matches, but here he failed, which I will talk about later.

In the four-year period that began, the Commission for Assistance to Developing Countries began to work actively. It was created on our initiative. The fact is that over 30 such federations joined FIDE in the 1970s. To a large extent, this was Euwe's achievement. Despite his easy-going age, he visited about a hundred countries (mostly at his own expense), agitating them to become FIDE members.

We have developed a multi-year work plan for the commission. It was called the "Averbakh-Campomanes plan". Developing countries, members of FIDE, were divided into groups according to their level of chess development. Some, and there were many of them, started from scratch. They needed literally everything: chess, watches, textbooks, programs. Others needed organizational help, others needed training seminars, and others asked to send masters and grandmasters. All this was taken up by the commission.

An important role in the development of chess in Asia was played by a number of tournaments organized there personally by Campomanes, in which European grandmasters took part. In two such tournaments, in Jakarta and Manila, in 1979 I also had a chance to participate.

An interesting story took place in the capital of Indonesia, clearly showing the entrepreneurial spirit and resourcefulness of a Filipino. When the tournament in Jakarta ended, together with grandmasters Iosif Dorfman and Raymond Keane, we were going to fly to the Philippines to take part in the next tournament. We did not have visas yet, but the Indonesians assured us:

Do not worry. Campomanes will come, he will do everything.

Florencio showed up the day before departure.

Nothing, nothing, - he reassured us, - on the way to the airport we will stop by the Philippine embassy and get a visa there.

Tomorrow we drive up to the embassy. And, oh horror: it is closed on the occasion of the national holiday of the Philippines - Independence Day!

Where is the ambassador? - Campomanes asks the duty officer.

Went to fish.

It couldn't have been worse. No visas, the plane to Manila takes off in a few hours. We are desperate, but the Filipino remains calm.

Go to the airport, and I'll go look for the ambassador.

Just as boarding the plane was nearing completion, Campomanes appeared out of breath.

Everything is fine! he announced triumphantly, handing us our passports.

An entry permit was written in them with a ballpoint pen.

Where is the seal? Keen asked.

I will solve this problem in Manila - answered Campomanes.

And indeed, before passport control, taking our passports, he went to the authorities. We were soon let through.

FIDE has always had strict rules regarding international tournaments in which one could achieve the title of master, or grandmaster. When the number of FIDE members increased significantly in the 1970s, and mainly at the expense of developing countries, it turned out that it was extremely difficult for these countries to hold international tournaments in which one could obtain an international title. Then the Qualification Commission, together with the Commission for Assistance to Developing Countries, proposed introducing another, as it were, intermediate title of FIDE Master.

This title was automatically awarded to men who reached a rating of 2300 points, and women who reached 2100 points. It was mainly designed for chess players from developing countries. However, it turned out that in developed countries there are quite a few chess players who wished to receive this title. And FIDE further extended the title of FIDE Master to all countries, especially since for each awarded title she received a certain income.

To gain even more authority among developing countries, after becoming FIDE President, Campomanes threw out another slogan - each federation should have its own grandmaster! The implementation of this slogan led to a sharp increase in the number of international grandmasters, but on the other hand, their level dropped sharply, and now, in practice, the average grandmaster is not much different in strength from the average master.

From Malta to Merano

At the end of 1980, the Olympics were held in La Valletta on the island of Malta. For the first time in the history of FIDE, such a cumbersome competition was held by a small island nation. For our federation, this Olympics was extremely important: it was necessary to avenge the failure in Buenos Aires. This time our team put up the most combative line-up: Karpov, Polugaevsky, Tal, Geller, Balashov, Kasparov. Already the first round determined the further course of the struggle. While ours defeated the Venezuelan team with a modest result of 2.5: 1.5, the Hungarians defeated the Scots with a dry score of 4: 0! This difference of one and a half points led to the fact that we had to play the role of catching up. Day after day passed, and the gap could not be bridged. In the seventh round, an important match between the USSR and Hungary took place, but it ended in a draw. Of course, the fact that at the start the world champion fell ill and missed several rounds also played a role.

At the finish line, Karpov recovered and began to win game after game. It certainly had an impact on the entire team. As a result, a round before the end of the Olympics, the USSR national team finally overtook the Hungarian team. Everything was decided by the last round, in which the Hungarians met with the Icelanders, and our team - with the Danes. At one point, it seemed that the Hungarians would win with a dry score, but they still lost half a point, and the USSR national team had a score of 2.5: 0.5 with the world champion's game being postponed.

When playing out, Karpov won, gaining 5.5 out of 6 in the last meetings, and the score became equal. And Buchholz was better for us: we met with stronger opponents. So our team became the winner of the Olympics. The result of the team is very impressive - 11 wins with three draws, however, the Hungarians managed to show the same outstanding result.

In the new cycle Candidates matches held in the same year, Korchnoi managed to defeat Petrosyan again with a score of 5.5:3.5, then Polugaevsky - 7.5:6.5 and in the final match of Hübner. With the score 4.5:3.5 in favor of Korchnoi and two adjourned positions in the worst positions for the German chess player, he decided to stop resisting.

A new duel between Karpov and Korchnoi was coming up. On the eve of this match, FIDE President Olafsson arrived in Moscow to discuss the very sensitive issue of Korchnoi's wife and son, who had essentially become hostages. Olafsson believed that this was unfair: rivals should be on an equal footing, and the authorities should allow the family to leave. In Moscow, he even visited the OVIR, which gave permission to travel abroad. The position of the Soviet authorities was quite different. Korchnoi is a renegade, a dissident. There is nothing for him to meet halfway and create equal conditions. On the contrary, everything possible should be done to get on his nerves. Such was the tactics of our delegation in Baguio, and such was it later. And Korchnoi's family was denied permission to leave twice.

Of course, Olafsson was told something different. They say that Korchnoi himself has never applied in the manner prescribed by law with a request to be reunited with his family. True, Korchnoi's open letter to Brezhnev was published in the Western press, but it was openly political in nature and could only cause a negative reaction.

Dissatisfied with the negotiations in Moscow, Olafsson returned to the FIDE headquarters and announced that the start of the match was postponed for a month in order to resolve the issue of the Korchnoi family and create equal conditions for the participants.

This, of course, we could not tolerate. Protests by the world champion and the USSR Chess Federation immediately followed.

Taking such a responsible step, the FIDE President made a significant mistake: he did not agree in advance with the organizers on the date for postponing the match. And when this issue was discussed at the FIDE congress in Atlanta, they supported our protest.

As a result, a “Solomonic” decision was made: to start the match in Merano not on September 19, as originally planned, and not on October 19, as Olafsson decided, but on October 1. True, in order to compensate the organizers for the losses associated with the change in the start date of the duel, FIDE had to give up five percent of the prize fund, which it was entitled to according to the regulations. This money Olafsson reimbursed FIDE from his own pocket.

Once, after a regular meeting, Max Euwe, who, having ceased to be FIDE President, continued to actively participate in its work, invited me to his room. Offering a glass of his favorite dry sherry, he explained:

I started playing in the Dutch Correspondence Championship. I want to show you some positions.

Having arranged the chess, we spent a couple of hours analyzing. When I was about to leave, Euwe grinned and said:

You will see, I will still be the world champion in correspondence!

Despite his venerable age (he was about eighty), he looked youthful and cheerful. It never occurred to me that I would see him for the last time...

Former world champion Max Euwe passed away in November 1981. I remember that in 1969, when Petrosyan lost a game to Spassky in the match for the chess crown, he unexpectedly received a telegram from Euwe: “keep smiling” (keep smiling) - her short text read.

Just think, - Petrosyan's wife then exclaimed, - Euwe is rooting for us!

Later I learned that at the same time I had received a telegram from Euwe and Spassky. Congratulations on your victory!

Such a position - to maintain good relations with everyone - was characteristic of Euwe both as a person and as FIDE President. He never put pressure on anyone, he always tried to find a solution that would suit different parties, he was always ready for a compromise. He can only be reproached for the fact that in 1972 in Reykjavik, at the start of the match between Spassky and Fischer, his position was far from neutral. However, this was because he sincerely believed that Fischer should be allowed to play a match for the chess crown, as this would raise interest in chess throughout the world. However, I have written about this before. However, when Fischer became champion, Euwe's position changed. He took a strictly neutral position, for which, by the way, he was criticized on both sides.

Unlike many champions, Euwe was exceptionally objective. If he had been different, he would have insisted that after the death of Alekhine he be returned the title of champion. By the way, at the FIDE congress in 1947 he was indeed given back the highest chess title, but he wore it for only two hours.

A Soviet delegation, late for the start of the congress, appeared, this decision was canceled and our proposal to hold a match-tournament was accepted. But, strictly speaking, there was already a tradition that the highest chess title could only be won in a match. And Euwe did not protest against holding a match-tournament.

One day he told me a curious detail about his 1935 match with Alekhine. It turns out that the Dutch failed to collect the full amount of the prize fund. And while the world champion was guaranteed a certain amount, Euwe himself played only for the title. He wasn't supposed to have any money!

After the rally held on the occasion of my victory,” he told me with a laugh, “when everyone dispersed, I found that I had no money even for the way home!

It is worth saying that starting from 1934, Euwe visited our country many times. Once, on his way to Japan, he traveled from Moscow to Vladivostok. He had warm, friendly relations with many of our grandmasters. And, to be honest, I was once struck by the characterization of Max Euwe, given in a secret note by the Sports Committee signed by S. Pavlov and sent in 1976 to the Central Committee of the CPSU:

"FIDE President M. Euwe systematically and quite consistently ignores many proposals of the socialist countries and carries out measures that testify to his pro-American and pro-Zionist orientation, sometimes not embarrassed to make decisions that infringe on the legitimate interests of Soviet chess players."

Of course, the Chairman of the Sports Committee himself did not write this note. It was prepared by his staff. From the chess department! But how far from the truth she was!

The world championship match between Karpov and Korchnoi took place in the Italian town of Merano in October-November 1981. On his return to Moscow, the world champion spoke about how he proceeded at a press conference for Soviet and foreign journalists in the press center of the USSR Foreign Ministry:

World championship matches are not easily won. They cost great strength and pass with incredible nervous overload.

Up to a certain point, the match in Merano was developing, as in Baguio, but if then the score 4: 1 was fixed after the 17th game, now after the 9th. With a score of 5: 2, I no longer made a mistake, like three years ago. Then it seemed to me that the most important thing was to win the fifth game, and the sixth would come by itself. Now I understood that the most difficult victory was the sixth, and, having won the fifth, I went to each subsequent meeting with one thought: "Play and win."

It is worth adding that the score was 5:2 after the 14th game. Three draws followed, and Karpov won in the last, 18th game.

At the end of the match, the following telegram was sent from Merano to Moscow:

“To the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU, Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR, Comrade Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev Dear Leonid Ilyich!

I am glad to report that your order has been carried out. Another victory in the match for the world chess championship was won, and I again defended the title of world champion.

In the difficult conditions of the struggle for the chess crown, I and all members of the Soviet delegation felt your daily support, care and attention of our beloved Motherland, for which we bring the Central Committee of the CPSU, the Soviet government and personally to you, Leonid Ilyich, heartfelt gratitude and filial gratitude. I assure you, Leonid Ilyich, that in the future I will spare no effort to develop the art of chess and strengthen the position of Soviet sports.

World Champion Anatoly Karpov.

The answer soon followed:

“To the World Chess Champion A.E. Karpov.

Dear Anatoly Evgenievich!

Thank you for the telegram. It gives me great pleasure once again, like three years ago, to warmly and cordially congratulate you on your remarkable success - winning the title of world chess champion. The Soviet people followed your game with great attention and received the news of your victory with deep satisfaction. I am pleased to note that in a difficult and responsible duel you showed high creative skill, a genuine Soviet character, endurance and self-control, and raised the glorious traditions of the national chess school even higher. I wish you good health, happiness and new victories for the glory of our socialist Motherland.

L. Brezhnev.”

Upon his return to Moscow, Karpov was awarded the Order of Lenin. Members of Karpov's delegation and the leadership of the Chess Federation of the USSR also received government awards. I received the Order of Friendship of Peoples. True, the awards were presented to us not in the Kremlin, but in the Sports Committee.

As head of the FIDE Qualification Committee, I occasionally traveled to the FIDE headquarters in Amsterdam to deal with urgent matters. One of them was the distribution of participants in interzonal tournaments into equal groups. I usually had instructions with me on how the Soviet participants should be distributed. We consulted with each of them, discussed everything with Baturinsky, and then gave the list to the leadership of the Sports Committee for approval. In Amsterdam, I insisted that our wishes be taken into account. Olafsson had his own problems, because other participants addressed him with similar requests. As a rule, he sought to please everyone.

In 1982, three interzonal tournaments were to be held - in Las Palmas, Mexican Tuluca and Moscow. When, after long disputes, the wishes of the Soviet participants were satisfied, Olafsson turned to me with a request:

Yakov Murey asks to go to Moscow. After all, he had a sick mother and aunt there.

I tried my best to resist. The USSR had no relations with Israel at that time, our athletes did not go there, the Israelis did not visit us either. However, in 1980, a precedent arose: the Israeli team participated in the Olympic Games in Moscow. This was not advertised, but the Jews of the capital were aware of the matter and came to cheer for their fellow tribesmen, which caused a headache for the leadership of the Sports Committee and various other services, which sought to limit contacts between Israelis and our people to a minimum. Seeing my stubbornness, Olafsson reproached in his hearts:

Yuri, why is this happening? When we go to meet your federation, it is considered normal, when FIDE asks for something, you object. In the end, we must help Murey!

I had no arguments to object to him, and I agreed.

This caused a big uproar in the Sports Committee. Baturinsky grimaced, Ivonin was dissatisfied. Of course, they could not forgive me for this decision. It was not recommended to show independence in such matters, which were considered political.

New bosses

At the end of 1979, together with Sevastyanov, I was returning from the FIDE congress in San Juan. The flight was long, tiring, and after discussing everything that could be discussed, we sat in silence, immersed in our thoughts. Suddenly Vitaly Ivanovich said aloud:

Still, a corporal should not command generals!

Who are you talking about? I asked.

About Baturinsky.

I knew that after Baguio the relationship between them had deteriorated thoroughly. I can vividly imagine how, having arrived at the end of the match to support his friend Tolya, Sevastyanov, not hesitating in expressions, attacked the head of the delegation for allowing the score to become 5: 5 after 5: 2. However, Viktor Davydovich showed himself a strong, diligent worker, rooting for the cause not out of fear, but out of conscience, and it seemed to me that there was no need to change him. He was right where he belongs. Sevastyanov apparently thought otherwise.

In 1980, grandmaster Nikolai Krogius appeared on our horizon. He lived in Saratov, headed a department at the university there and was preparing his doctoral dissertation on the psychology of chess creativity. Just at that time, the Sports Committee was looking for a person for the post of head chess coach, and Krogius seemed quite suitable for this role.

When he was invited for an interview with the leadership of the Sports Committee, he first went to the Central School of Music, where Baturinsky was sitting, to discuss with him how they would work together.

I don’t know what kind of conversation Krogius had with Ivonin, I don’t know if Sevastyanov was in his office, but Nikolai Vladimirovich left the Sports Committee not as a head coach, but as head of the chess department. To Baturinsky, who was to find out about his resignation, he no longer went.

Karpov's convincing victory, plus her high appraisal by the country's leadership, apparently raised the prestige of chess in the Sports Committee. The chess department was soon transformed into a department. Thus, in the structure of the Sports Committee, chess has risen a step higher, from an inconspicuous department that, along with volleyball, basketball and handball, was included in the Department of Hand Sports Games, they have become on a par with such prestigious sports as football and hockey. The head of the department, and he became Krogius, was given a large separate office, and he got a secretary ...

In 1982, the Olympiad and the FIDE Congress were to be held in Lucerne, at which the FIDE President was to be elected. There were again three candidates for the presidency: Olafsson, Campomanes and one of the oldest FIDE figures, Yugoslav Bozidar Kazic.

Shortly before the departure of our delegation to Lucerne, Ivonin held a meeting, which was attended by Krogius, Baturinsky, Karpov and myself. We had to decide who to support for the presidency. In the first round, we were supposed to vote for a member of the Union of Communists of Yugoslavia Kazhich, although it was clear that he would not run for president. This means that everything will be decided by the second round of voting, and we had to choose either Olafsson or Campomanes.

Karpov immediately stated that, in his opinion, a grandmaster should be the president of FIDE. Krogius supported him, and so did I. Only Baturinsky spoke out for Campomanes. It would seem that the question is clear. However, we were soon instructed to vote for Campomanes. Some secret springs worked. Apparently, our authorities could not forgive Olafsson for his position on the issue of the Korchnoi family.

Just before leaving, Yvonin called me and Krogius.

We have decided,” he announced, “that Krogius will run for membership in the Executive Committee, and you,” he turned to me, “for the qualification committee and commission for aid to developing countries.

This decision had its own reason - to have not one person in FIDE, but two. However, something else was strange: the candidacies of Soviet representatives in international organizations were usually approved by the Central Committee of the CPSU, it took some time, and then there was such a hurry. And I had a suspicion that this was done only to prevent me from challenging the decision of the Sports Committee in the Central Committee. For that matter, I didn't mean to do it. But the candidacy of Krogius, who had no experience in organizational matters and only spoke German weakly, could cause objections in the Central Committee. He had only one merit: he served on the Sports Committee.

Later, having already returned from Lucerne, I saw the original of my “lens” in the field office of the Sports Committee. This document, containing brief information about a person, was usually sent to the Central Committee before going abroad and upon appointment to international organizations. So, in the column about knowledge of foreign languages, where it was printed “fluent in English and German”, someone added “poorly”. And it became clear to me how I was replaced by Krogius.

But back to Lucerne. At the Olympics held there, the USSR national team performed beyond praise. Having won 13 matches and drawn one, our chess players found themselves out of reach for their opponents already one round before the end and eventually outpaced the next team of Czechoslovakia by 6.5 points. Karpov, Kasparov, Polugaevsky, Belyavsky, Tal and Yusupov played for the team (in board order). Delegates from 109 countries arrived at the FIDE Congress in Lucerne. During presidential elections, according to the FIDE statutes, voting was by secret ballot. To win, a presidential candidate had to get at least 55 votes.

In the first round, Campomanes received 52 votes, mostly from Asian, African and Latin American countries. Olafsson - 37, he was supported by the overwhelming majority of Western European countries, and Kazhich, as expected, only 19. In the second round, the USSR delegation, which also controlled the votes of the countries of the socialist camp, gave these votes to Campomanes. He became the new president of FIDE.

It would seem that after such support, the relationship of the Filipino with our federation, and in fact with the Sports Committee, will become just perfect, because after the match in Baguio they were already quite good. It is significant that at the Spartakiad of the Peoples of the USSR in 1979 and at the Olympic Games in Moscow in 1980, Campomanes was present as an honored guest. However, in 1993 this relationship was seriously tested. But I will talk about that in the next chapter.

As expected, Krogius was elected to the FIDE Executive Committee, and I was left as chairman of the qualification committee and co-chairman of the committee for assistance to developing countries.

At the congress, the results of three interzonal tournaments were also summed up and a draw was made for the upcoming matches of the candidates. In the quarter-final matches, Smyslov was supposed to meet with Huebner, Torre with Ribli, Kasparov with Belyavsky and Korchnoi with Portisch.

Shortly after I returned from Lucerne to Moscow, Smyslov approached me with a proposal - to take part in his preparation for the match with Huebner, and then lead his team for this match. Vasya and I had known each other since pre-war childhood, we played together in dozens of tournaments, but we never had a chance to work on chess together.

In his best years, Vasily Vasilyevich did not like to pore over the in-depth study of opening variations. He was more interested in strategic ideas. However, times have changed. In order to fight on equal terms with the youth, Smyslov had to change his attitude to training. Together with the second coach Viktor Kupreichik, we did a very thorough job of improving his opening repertoire, and analyzed not so much widespread systems as old or half-forgotten ones, such as the Chigorin Defense in the Queen's Gambit or the Schlechter Defense in the Slav.

I have always been struck by Smyslov's exceptional practicality at the board, his composure, truly Olympian calm and his inner harmony. Looking ahead, I’ll say: in the two years that we worked together, I saw something that was hidden from prying eyes: Vasya turned out to be a deeply religious person, completely relying on God, unconditionally believing in his destiny. This belief in his destiny helped him withstand the blows to his ego that every aging chess player experiences when meeting young people at the board.

An interesting question is: what made the ex-champion, a man who has already been a chess king, try to storm the chess Olympus once again? After all, he was already over sixty, when most grandmasters, as a rule, retire from the race. By the way, it was at this age that his friend and rival Botvinnik decided to completely move away from the practical game.

It seems to me that the reason was Smyslov's pride. He didn't like being called a veteran. And he had the idea to prove to those who were fit for his sons or even grandchildren that, surpassing them in the philosophical understanding of chess and experience, he is in no way inferior to them in practical strength. It was this idea that became a powerful stimulus that forced Vasily Vasilyevich to work on chess selflessly and fanatically. And if, as we will see later, the second assault on Olympus was not completely successful, then, as it seems to me, he fulfilled his task and can rightfully say: “I did everything I could. Let someone my age try to do more!”